January 30, 2021

Mamadi Doumbouya for The New York Times

By David Marchese

"I smile when I feel like smiling, and I don't when I do not."

— Cicely Tyson, the actress

The actress Cicely Tyson died on Thursday. She was 96.

Ms. Tyson had a remarkable career that spanned seven decades. She refused to accept roles that demeaned Black people and urged other Black actors to do the same. Her shattering of racial stereotypes in the 1970s propelled her to stardom and fame, our writer notes in Ms. Tyson's obituary. She won Emmys, a Tony, an honorary Oscar and multiple awards from civil rights and women's groups.

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Just days before she died, The New York Times Magazine published a Q&A with Ms. Tyson to coincide with the publication of her memoir, "Just As I Am."

Today, In Her Words brings you an excerpt from that conversation.

You're 96 years old. You've had a full life. What advice do you have about how to do that?

Oh, I don't know that I can say it now. Maybe at the end of the interview.

A cliffhanger!

That's right. It makes sure you stay with me.

I like it. Let me ask a question that has to do with race and acting. You remember Pauline Kael, the feisty and influential longtime film critic for The New Yorker?

Yes. She gave me an excellent review for ''Sounder.''

She also had an essay about "Jane Pittman," and I want to read you something from it. She wrote: "I'm comparing Tyson to the highest, because that's the comparison she invites and has earned. She isn't there, but she's on her way. She's great, but she will be even greater when she can relax and smile without feeling she's Uncle Tomming." That's a pretty big, fraught assumption Ms. Kael was making, that you were playing to racial perceptions. What do you think about that?

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That's a surprise! I don't Uncle Tom to anybody. I don't care who it is. When I smile, I smile. I do not grin. There's a difference, OK? And I would say that to Jesus, do you understand? White people always think that when Black people smile a lot or laugh a lot, they're being Uncle Tom to white folks. Well, that is not me. Absolutely not me. I smile when I feel like smiling, and I don't when I do not.

But what about Ms. Kael's fundamental assumption? That your characterizations were informed by off-the-screen racial dynamics. Did you ever approach your work on those terms?

No. I never worried about what people think about my performances. I work internally, and then when I'm not working on a character, I don't think about them at all.

In your book, you write about some problematic people who were in your life. One is Bill Cosby, with whom you were close. But in the book, you don't mention what has happened with him over the past few years or how you feel about it. Are you comfortable sharing your perspective on that?

I think about it all the time. To tell you the truth, I can't believe it. We were close. Miles and I were married in his home, you know? It's hard for me to talk about, because I don't know this person that is incarcerated and I never experienced anything that resembled the behavior that he is incarcerated for. I don't know that person of whom they speak.

What does it say about human nature that this person you were close to had this other side?

That you don't know anybody. You think you know them, but you don't. I mean, that a person could have a personality so far removed from the one that you know? How can you account for it? You can't.

At your age, you must think about death now and then. Does it scare you?

I'm not scared of death. I don't know what it is. How could I be afraid of something I don't know anything about?

It's something a lot of people are scared of.

They just think they know death because other people say it is something to be scared of, but they don't know that it is a frightening thing. Do you?

Nope.

No, you don't know what it is. People say it is this and it is that. But they don't know. They've not been there. I've not been there. I'm not in a hurry to go, either! I take it a day at a time, David, and I'm grateful for every day that God gives me.

What's the most interesting thing about being your age?

Holding on to your mentality. I have known a few people who lost it, and that to me is the saddest thing in the world. Because when you can look at your child and say, "Who are you?" or "What's your name?" — that's the worst that can happen to anybody. I can't believe this medical science that looks at trying to give you more time when you don't know who you are, don't know who your children are, do not know anything. What's the point?

Can we go back to the cliffhanger?

I can tell you now: To thine own self be true.

That's what you left me hanging for? I mean, it's good advice but —

Yes, that's what it is. Do that, and you'll have no regrets.

Have you ever not been true to yourself?

I have tried not to. [Laughs.]

I think I'm confused by the double negative. Does that mean —

You didn't get that did you?

I don't think I did.

[Laughs.] I know it is confusing. Follow me, David.

You're just playing with me now. Help me out.

It's simple. I try always to be true to myself. I learned from my mom: ''Don't lie ever, no matter how bad it is. Don't lie to me ever, OK? You will be happier that you told the truth.'' That has stayed with me, and it will stay with me for as long as I'm lucky enough to be here.

Read the full conversation here.

Write to us at inherwords@nytimes.com.

What else is happening

Here are three articles from The Times you may have missed.

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"Someone is having fun at our expense." What will happen to the followers of conspiracy theories that bend Americans' perceptions of reality? We follow one woman's journey out of QAnon. [Read the story]
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"If you do not speak, you leave an upside-down world." In France, Camille Kouchner is pushing the country to a painful reckoning with incest, and with the elites who excuse one another's sins. [Read the story]

In Conversation: Julia Gillard

Former Prime Minister Julia Gillard of Australia in 2019.Lukas Coch/EPA, via Shutterstock

Please join the Women's Forum for the Economy and Society and The New York Times for a conversation between Julia Gillard, 27th prime minister of Australia, chair of the Global Institute for Women's Leadership and Francesca Donner, the editor of In Her Words, as they discuss Ms. Gillard's new book, Women and Leadership: Real Lives, Real Lessons and what political leadership could look like in a post-Covid era.

Tuesday, Feb. 2 at 2.30 p.m. ET

R.S.V.P. here.

In Her Words is edited by Francesca Donner. Our art director is Catherine Gilmore-Barnes, and our photo editor is Sandra Stevenson.

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